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This topic contains 6 replies, has 2 voices.

Last updated by John-Pierre Cornelissen 1 year ago.

Assigned support staff: Otto.

Author Posts
October 2, 2018 at 1:35 pm

John-Pierre Cornelissen

I am trying to:
In the dashboard I try to select a page to be translated.

Link to a page where the issue can be seen:
Translation dashboard

Instead, I got:
I need to be able to select the 'Translate' option but it is grayed out.

--
This is the same issue as I had before. But now I have a user (Maria Geesink) and I already gave her the language combination Dutch » English and German + subscription to the advanced translation manager. But in the dashboard I still can't select the translate option.

I gave Maria the subscriber role (is that possible for translators?) but I also tried Administrator.

And also on this site, at the top it shows there is a translation service that needs authentication. It's ICanLocalize and I can't deactivate it. I already went to support » troubleshooting + refresh translation service + Reset professional translation state. But it doesn't go away from the translation dashboard.

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PS 1: this is a test website so I can let a translator have a look on how the Advanced Translation Manager works before she sends a proposal to the end customer.

PS 2: you closed my other ticket about the word count. How will I find out when this issue is fixed?

October 2, 2018 at 5:29 pm #2782406

Otto
Supporter

Languages: English (English ) Spanish (Español )

Timezone: America/Argentina/Buenos_Aires (GMT-03:00)

Hello again 🙂

To remove ICL you should follow these steps:
https://wpml.org/forums/topic/i-cant-select-the-translate-option-in-the-translation-manager-word-count/#post-2767996

I did it for you in the test site and now the option to "translate" is enabled.

Regarding the word count problem. I checked with our second tier support. The difference between what you get from the TS and in WPML word count is not that big in the end. Each translation service has its own word count method so there may be differences. The WPML word count is a rough estimate, the actual is the one from the TS, that as explained may vary.

If you see any content that is being sent to translation that is shouldn't be sent, please let us know so we can fix it. Makes sense?

Kind regards,

Otto

October 2, 2018 at 8:35 pm #2782775

John-Pierre Cornelissen

Hi Otto,

I think I did follow the steps you gave previously. Like I wrote, I went to
- WPML » support » troubleshooting + refresh translation service
- WPML » support » troubleshooting + reset professional translation state

What did I miss?

--

Wordcount: I respectfully disagree that it's not such a big difference. A range of 5% to 28% on the examples I gave is a big difference. And the total pages counted by WPML and a translation service is 13%. I think that's also a big difference.

Also, WPML and ATE are from the same company. I understand that it's two systems with probably a different calculation method, but translators use that count for their proposals and invoicing, so these two systems from the same company should give the same result and not a big difference of 5 to 28%.

But my question "How will I find out when this issue is fixed?" was not about the difference between translation services. It was about the WPML word count being totally off. It gave 30.940, 28.341, 26.843, 16.420 and 11.604. That's 5 different results. And sending it to WPML's own classic or advanced translation editor gives yet another count.

We both didn't see any content being sent to translation that shouldn't be sent. So if WPML doesn't sent the wrong content to it's translation editors, why does it count the wrong content. Does that make sense?

Is that still going to be investigated?

Thanks
JP

October 3, 2018 at 12:58 pm #2784617

Otto
Supporter

Languages: English (English ) Spanish (Español )

Timezone: America/Argentina/Buenos_Aires (GMT-03:00)

Hello,

It was also needed to remove (or authorize) the Translation Service.

Regarding the word count.

I see your point, and we won't neglect to investigate further, of course. We just need to see clearly the issue on our side.

Let me elaborate a bit on this.

Word count is not math, although it seems to be. There are many ways to do it.

WPML works with many translation services. Each one of them has its way to do it, depending not only on the theory they applied to the word count algorithm but also on the features they have.

What WPML tries to do is to provide a rough estimate that relates to all the TS. And in that perspective, it seems to be acceptable. Of course, the final estimate will come from the TS. We try to be close to all of them, not to match all of them.

The ATE is a tool developed by us, but it has its own features and mechanisms, that differ from other TS. That's why the word count is different. We treat the ATE in this aspect as another TS, and WPML should not match it, but as mentioned before it tries to provide the best estimate for all the TS.

So, WPML word count (the latest, after resaving the pages) provides close estimates to the ATE and the other translation service that you used for testing. From our perspective, is working fine.

I understand that it does not match the Word wordcount, but it is not a benchmark for us. How is Word counting words? Can the Word word count parameters be tweaked? What is the extra content that WPML is adding or how is it not counting properly?

If you can provide a more direct example of how WPML is not counting properly the words we are open to check our algorithm.

Makes sense?

Kind regards,

Otto

October 3, 2018 at 1:48 pm #2784730

John-Pierre Cornelissen

Hi again,

"It was also needed to remove (or authorize) the Translation Service."
But how? I wanted to remove that service. I used the steps you gave and I tried everything I described before and it didn't work. So how exactly do I remove such service so I know the next time. I think that a simple click on the deactivate button should do the trick, but it doesn't.

--

Thanks for explaining, but I just don't understand how you can count words in different ways. The only thing I can imagine is whether digits/numbers should also be counted as words (that's what Word does).

I already gave several examples where WPML is not properly counting the words here:
https://wpml.org/forums/topic/word-count-issue-isnt-correct/#post-2780710
There is a difference of 5%, 6%, 14% and 28% between the WPML count and the number of words I counted myself in the ATE source column (by I copying that into Word).

I don't know what the extra content is that WPML is counting because it only gives me the results. It doesn't tell me what it's counting. That's what you or your colleagues need to investigate.

What are the word count parameters that WPML uses?

Thanks
JP

October 3, 2018 at 5:38 pm #2785405

Otto
Supporter

Languages: English (English ) Spanish (Español )

Timezone: America/Argentina/Buenos_Aires (GMT-03:00)

Hello,

Before being able to remove the TS you need to unset it following these steps:
https://wpml.org/documentation/getting-started-guide/preferred-translation-service/#un-setting-the-preferred-translation-service-for-a-single-wpml-site

You will not see the button now because I already clicked on it on your test site.

Regarding the word count problem, I reopened the other ticket. I will escalate the problem to our second tier support and follow up there.

Kind regards,

Otto

October 3, 2018 at 6:00 pm #2785442

John-Pierre Cornelissen

My issue is resolved now. Thank you!