Home›Support›English Support›[Escalated to 2nd Tier] Word in wrong order with automatic Deepl translations
[Escalated to 2nd Tier] Word in wrong order with automatic Deepl translations
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Languages: English (English )Spanish (Español )Italian (Italiano )
Timezone: Europe/Rome (GMT+01:00)
Hi there!
I'm temporarily chiming in just to let you know that we're trying to figure out why this happens on your specific context.
We tested with different languages and while we can certify the issue comes from deepl, it doesn't seem to be a bug, maybe a grammar rule that they think should be applied?
In here I can assure you it has nothing to do with the segmentation because the references that you've given us like:
Rustig gelegen tussen de wijngaarden en olijfbomen in een heuvelachtige en bosrijke omgeving en op loopafstand van het populaire dorp Lorgues in de Provençe.
would've been the same exact segment before and now. Also I suspect this issue started happening more often when DEEPL actually implemented teh glossary. the glossary is handled by deepl when you use deepl, while it's handled by us when another engine is used (and we had to use theirs because otherwise deepl ignored the glossary when we tried to implement it ourselves!).
Anyways our devs are running a few other tests and we're also talking wth our linguist to try to figure out why is deepl thinking that the glossary entry should go first, but from what i understand, grammatically it's not incorrect, it just feels unnatural, right?
I am not sure why you refer to the segmentation, because this ticket has nothing to do with segmentation.
Maybe you thought I suggested that by saying "It started after the ATE update that added bigger segments, dark mode etc." I didn't suggest here that it's caused by the bigger segments, nor by dark mode. I merely referred to the update of that specific version, which contained more changes then just the two I mentioned, like a step to integrating AI.
Note the difference between the Deepl ATE translation and the translation Deepl provides on their website without using a glossary.
I know enough French to see that the translations are wrong, and I am sure your linguist will say the same. Most significant examples:
- ATE: Lorgues12, rue du 8 Mai, 83510 , tel : 04.94.73.92.37
- Deepl online: 12, rue du 8 Mai, 83510 Lorgues, tel : 04.94.73.92.37
- ATE: Villa VinceLa Villa La Douce Kees est une villa de 8 personnes...
- Deepl online: La Villa la Douce Kees est une villa de 8 lits...
I appreciate you saying that this is caused by Deepl, but in that case you need to work with them to get this fixed. This ticket is almost 11 months old, and all I get when I ask for a status update is that you didn't get an update from Deepl. Well, wpml is a big customer of them, so why don't you chase them every week to get this fixed.
Languages: English (English )Spanish (Español )Italian (Italiano )
Timezone: Europe/Rome (GMT+01:00)
I totally get your frustration, believe me, we get the same with the engines and/or some providers because they don't come back to us, they reply with canned answers or they just tell us "nothing to report" or something similar.
Our linguist is still about to check this problem out, I talked to our devs and they could not recreate the problem that easily so they think it might be related to some language pair, hence the grammatical question before because it may be related to this area.
Have you had this situation with English as the source or the target by any chance?
With these services, the communication is not at all as the one we give to you, for example, it's quite an "it is what it is" situation most of the time but eventually they do fix the issues. there is no peer to peer kind of communication, just a mail or a ticket and that's it.
We in fact contacted them about this and a few other issues we had many times in more than 1 year actually, and only 1 of the issues got solved, on their time (and they didn't even get back to us). Unfortunately this is quite standard among these services.
I'll keep you in the loop in case we get more information.
Hi the source language on this website is Dutch and I saw the issue with translations from Dutch to English and Dutch to French. I can't recall if it was for the same sentences. I also can't remember if it also happened when translating Dutch to German.
Languages: English (English )Spanish (Español )Italian (Italiano )
Timezone: Europe/Rome (GMT+01:00)
Interesting. can you tell me where exactly, a page and a segment that I can check?
Because we've been trying to do this but from English, and it's almost impossible to recreate, so this tells me that Deepl and Duttch might have nuances that English doesn't have. I'm trying to figure out what alongside our devs, to see how we can help you.
Dutch source sentence
- ATE: the translation the ATE gave
- Deepl online: the translation on the Deepl website / app.
» glossary term: the term that exists in the glossary that is misplaced in the translation
I suppose the page where it happens are irrelevant, because my corrections are saved in the TM by now.
I think you should be able to replicate if you test in a new installation with Dutch as the site language and the given examples as the source.
Languages: English (English )Spanish (Español )Italian (Italiano )
Timezone: Europe/Rome (GMT+01:00)
I think you misunderstood my request. I asked if you could send me a page where the problem happened on the new site, because I want to check what happened and which glossary entry was used this time.
I'm saying this because in here you mention NL > DE, instead of NL > FR, and this could help us better identify the possible issue so we can either tell Deepl about it or try to come up with something.
We have the previous example and yes, with that specific example the issue happens every time, however, when we try to do the same with a different language pair, it just doesn't happen anymore, which is what's ODD, but also what tell us the problem is on Deepl's end.
Since they never came back to us, we wanted to give them better examples, with different language pairs so they could see that the problem was bigger and maybe raise their priorities. however what they do is decided directly by them and unfortunately we have no control over that (but we can always try!)
De glossary term was "Piet de Leeuw" (de name of the restaurant). I don't remember which segment it was, but it had this term in the sentence. See attached screenshot.
There were many more pages that had to be reviewed. I just did that while making this screen recording: hidden link but unfortunately the issue didn't occur on the other paged. I think that is because this is an older site that was translated quite some time ago, before the update to the ATE*.
The 'vacatures' page where I saw the issue contains 7 segments (see attached), but I only noticed the issue in, I think, 2 segments. Those were probably segments that were completely changed after the initial translation, so the new sentences have been re-translated with the new ATE*.
* I stick with referring to new/updated ATE, because that's the only difference I know between when this issue never happened and started to happen.
Also, if you look at the screen recording, you will see that I mention 3 other issues with the ATE (#anchor link, mailto link and % completed value). Are these known issues, or do you want me to report them in a separate ticket?
Languages: English (English )Spanish (Español )Italian (Italiano )
Timezone: Europe/Rome (GMT+01:00)
The other issues you mentioned are known issues and are already fixed but haven't finished passing the QA tests so they are not in production yet.
We had a few issues with this new version that made us rethink our approaches and work in a different way. the releases are a bit slower but far more secure and stable, plus there are a lot of usability-related changes to make the entire experience better, faster and more reliable.
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Thanks for the info about the page, we can take it from there and it's good to have another example with a different language pair.
I talked to our dev and they are building a specific tool for this purpose so we can either provide a better and more detailed information to the translation engines or we can try to find something ourselves to solve the problem.
I'll let you know as soon as we have more information.
Languages: English (English )Spanish (Español )Italian (Italiano )
Timezone: Europe/Rome (GMT+01:00)
We ran a few more tests and maybe we managed to find the part in deepl that created the problem.
Our devs opened a new Deepl Ticket showing what they found and will wait for them to answer, hoping that we get to a solution this time.
They are also about to test a few more things to see if we can also try to prevent it on our end (difficult but who knows, maybe it could be possible).
I'll keep you updated as soon as we have more information about this.
